"why on God's green earth was she 100 feet AGL a half-mile from the runway" How about any number of reasons that many aircraft have crashed in VMC with the runway in sight: engine failure, icing, wind sheer, pilot incapacitation, etc. Gray light is the worst, and that sort of snow just is impossible to see through clearly. Again it was very unfortunate. However, I do not live out there and haven't seen the stack in person.https://gray-kmvt-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/Z9XA94vRdq5ABRdEofwGJeK0tGE=/1200x675/smart/filters:quality(85)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/JNAC4GVPRBC7RHHQSIO3P2WAEY.JPGAnonymous Said: "I wouldn't start speculating that they hit the silos, without proof, because those of us who live there see no indication that the silos or cooling towers were touched. Sure, reported airport weather can be different than what you experience on approach, but it is quite unlikely that less than 1 mile off airport, the ceilings dropped from 2100 AGL to 200 AGL and visibility halved from 2SM to 1SM to keep the pilot in IMC when the airport weather was trending in the opposite direction. Not every pilot/operator does so, especially if its not required by the SOP.2. Even a small city is a maze of confusing lights at night. The survey segment of the flight commenced about 14 km to the northwest of the airport and was conducted at a height of about 200 ft above . https://registry.faa.gov/N7181AA small plane crashed at the Watsonville Municipal Airport on Sunday afternoon. @billy - The accident pilot was initially flying a 4.1 descent angle leaving JAMID, with 1.6 NM remaining to the RW20 threshold. The only way to hit the obstacles is to be WAY low on the approach. suppose that building had been painted with a bold pattern and say a big potato image - no chance of mistaking that for a runway. 2 Vista residents killed in small plane crash in Arizona. It wasn't.See later comment down thread for time hacks/ADS-B correlation. Yesterday's divert impact/scramble is fresh in dispatcher's mind.- Possible bias factors:5. The collision smokestack is 2,639' from the threshold (measured on Google Earth). Perhaps the pilot forgot them. Would the FAA have allowed the company to mount a strobe on the top of that stack, or would it have interfered with the sight picture for a pilot on the glideslope for a landing? 4 fatal. The Flight Safety Emergency Checklist Memory Items for an Inadvertent Icing Encounter calls for:(1) Ignition Switch .ON(2) Inertial SeparatorBYPASS (bypasses precipitation past the intake back out in the slipstream)(3) PITOT/STATIC, STALL, WINDSHIELD, PROP, ANTI-ICEONThe FAA/NTSB Safety Investigators hopefully have noted the various switch positions of all the above, whether the Inertial Separator was placed in the BYPASS position, and whether wing flaps were selected.I am not aware of whether this was an older model of Cessna Caravan equipped with legacy round instrument gages and the old booted deice system. Give it up, she didn't bust minimums she got sucked right into that smokestack by the steam cloud she couldn't get out of in time.This is 100% on the potato plant. Wind coming from 190 to 210 and the runway being on the 202, it necessarily follows that any plane flying that approach will be in the steam at one point.This is when the pilot lost visibility and decided to go around. But to go below the MDA prior to 1.1 miles from the runway kinda busts the approach. Peace. He then botched the landing by coming up short in the surf. The Weather.gov page that contains your copied text paragraph verbatim may have been the origin of all the other bad "starter blade" pastes over the years. It was snowing at the time and snow showers would've probably reduced visibility. The now prevalent hatred behaviors were trained into people by subtle but continuous nudging from news media, social media and marketing. That's not much time at 90-100kts, about 20 seconds from the time the aircraft hits decision altitude 500 feet above the ground to the time it is paralell to the stacks.On a 3 degree glidpath to LPV minimums you are 54 feet above the normal threshold. So, again, false. Here is. Carrying that angle across the river and over to the factory she should have been approximately 230 feet above the ground and 160 feet above those stacks. Osha's 42 inch guardrail standard x 20 comes out to 70 feet.This was the image used:https://goo.gl/maps/CqTD5vsKPo3e2cK99Door opening height to clear semi trucks are 14 feet. She established -857 and kept it there and kept going. You clearly don't know how ASOS works. During the flip, the right horizontal stabilizer contacted something, most likely the roof, but not with much force. The reported weather doesn't mean anything about conditions at the accident site. Yes, the N56KJ CVR transcript and the fact that the top of the tail was not cleared because "it will blow off" are important reminders of how far you can go wrong with decision making focused toward get-there-itis.Having comments on N56KJ closed is unfortunate. That full sequence of reports showing 6, 2 1/2, 1 1/2, 1. Second time around, the airplane's last data is 4150 (ground elevation) with an groundspeed of 80 knots. It is unfortunate that Mr. Minter was in an airplane accident, but the stories so far have not discovered his interest and involvement in aviation:"Raised in Santa Monica, Minter served in The United States Marine Corps. This Cessna had been built in 1974. She was truly amazing. The witness heard the engine increase in sound and saw the nose lift shortly before the airplane struck the smokestack and descend to the rooftop.". This can occur on take-off and landing and with sufficient rapidity to obscure the runway and other landmarks during a critical time in flight. The airplane just came up a little bit short. It is nonsense to suggest that because the perfect approach was 100ft to the side of the stack and above it, that it was okay! and both pilots followed provided vertical guidance as required for Part 121 aircraft even if the procedure results in a visual approach? Forget all the right triangle calculations for a moment and think of this; The pilot was flying 70 to 75' agl, 2500 feet from the threshold. CALCULATE A VDP, use that DISTANCE FROM THE RUNWAY as a point to start down or go missed. However, this data alone does not provide the basis for a determination regarding the. I have never heard of a Caravan having enough turbulence to unport the fuel and cause a flameout.Thoughts? Looking at flightaware data, the pilot made two approaches on RNAV RWY 20. I admire everyone who is alive and I am happy for those of us, regardless of age who enjoy the freedom to decide on how to spend our time. Reply Delete. Even if the tower and building wasn't there and the Bonneville salt flats was in front of the plane she would be touching down in the next 6 seconds. I know this is an uncorrected altitude for temp/pressure so if you add the 50 to 100' as suggested above for correction, that would put the aircraft at about 4250' MSL. Quickest way to get there Cheapest option Distance between. That full sequence of reports showing 6, 2 1/2, 1 1/2, 1. Here's what's left of the stack in question, at the 2:24 point in the video.https://youtu.be/aRN3RJaW618. Every banality gets analyzed superficially and repackaged as advice or fear. From the preliminary ntsb report:"According to a witness, located about one quarter mile away, he first heard, then observed the airplane descend out of the clouds then immediately went into a steam cloud, which was produced from a set of six smokestacks located on the same roof. There are less than 4,000 feet available for landing. They didn't even have the correct flight plan with the assigned approach procedure set in the FMC. The plane headed towards Kenedy Regional Airport prior to crashing. That obstacle is this 140 foot radio tower near the United Metals Recycling plant, which is 0.6 NM north east of the Gem State stack:https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5584036,-113.7480359,3a,86.2y,335.86h,111.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfD-logCbUr79CSW4DcVyPQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656None of the Gem State stacks are shown anywhere on the approach plate. Don't bust minimums, ladies and gents. Brittney had a special connection with her siblings and their children. "Ducking under" wasn't still on the accident pilot's to do list by the time JAMID was reached. The crash wasn't a result of a tower appearing out of nowhere, but an airplane appearing where it shouldn't be. How could it be said now that either of them wanted it closed? Easy enough to fact check using Adsbexchange and the LiveAtc recording.Results:-Cleared for takeoff @7 minute mark on LiveAtc-ADS-B shows airborne by @23:08:23Z-Flies along coast, gets halfway to Malibu-No airspeed or altitude trouble so far-ADS-B shows a turnback starting @23:14:00-"I'd like to return" @14 minute mark LiveAtc-ADS-B speed & altitude degrading on the way back-Declares Emergency just before 16 minute mark -ATC offers "left base for runway 3" @17 minute mark-ADS-B shows crossing the pier @23:18:04Simple to listen to comm audio source files for yourself:https://www.liveatc.net/archive.phpThis accident's file is found by selecting:Date: 22 December, Time: 2300-2330Z, Feed: "KSMO Tower #1". Ditching in a foot or two of water thats spilling onto the sand, as he appeared to do, is so much easier than ditching outside the breakers where you would encounter wave crests and troughs. A financial firm CEO was killed along with three others when a small plane that he was flying crashed shortly after takeoff in Georgia, according to reports . You MUST ditch with full flaps and almost stall it right before impact with the water. Additionally, with the needles centered she would have been 100 feet to the right of the stacks on a normal GPS approach.Looking at the ADS-B track on the missed it shows her at 6950 which should be coming from the GPS. I have done this approach alot and I don't bother with 20 when burley is at minimums or fact that I can't circle to land 24 . "You're aware that the passenger who died was 95 years old (born in 1927). The stack is depicted on the approach plate as being 4304' MSL. https://imgur.com/a/7FTQ82nThe runway has no VASI, PAPI or other visual glidepath aid to indicate that you are dangerously close to hitting those obstacles. that happens in many non precision approaches, very common.Someone commented:At reaching the edge of the building, 80 + 8 = 88 knots:Wed 10:32:25 AM 42.5520 -113.7592 217 80 92 4,150 -857Airspeed of 88 is ok, yes it fell off but stalling speed is in the low 60's.2nd the descent rate is -857. "Given that the approach predates the stack she hit, I'm just guessing that the stack was not the reason why there is only an RNAV approach. FlightAware displays ground speed, not IAS, so you have to account for winds loft, which can be significantly higher than reported surface winds.3. After the pilot report established at IREME, the controller cleared the pilot for the approach. The POH manual in most light singles states that you don't deploy flaps during an engine out until your aim point can be confirmed to be made just as in regular landing configuration when powered. They still had their own aircraft at SMO through 2017. The dent in the stack is at the middle of the second from top section of flanged stack piping, a distance of approximately 14 feet below the top of the stack.A C208 gear leg is not 14 feet below the wing, making it non-credible to suggest that the wing cleared the top but the gear leg struck the stack fourteen feet lower down.As for the dive down mistakenly theory - what did she see that looked like the Snake river in front of the threshold? The last "reliable" data point on ADS-B was @ 08:32:25 at an altitude of 4150' MSL and a position of 42.5520,-113.7592 which is almost directly at the stack. The fully revealed circumstances are a huge cautionary tale. Someone else who had similarly flown into BYI many times, made a first approach across the impossible to overcome steam cloud before going missed, came in for the second after sizing it all up thoroughly on the first pass, but continuing until crashing instead of going missed again. There is a LOT of detail logged in the G1000 system onboard these aircraft. She traveled, she laughed, she loved. Top of the stack that was hit is 100 feet AGL. A pilot is a pilot and she made a mistake and hit something she knew was there. Loss of Control in Flight: Cessna 525C Citation . Nevertheless, based on the actual weather, security video and eye witness report, the visibility was 1SM at the time of the accident, giving the pilot only 16 seconds from breaking out, to react before hitting the tower. Good observation about first occurrence. If the stacks are putting out a bunch of smoke and steam, I can see how you could easily hit them despite them having red anti-collision lighting (according to the obstacle database at least.). The MDA is no longer applicable once you have the airport in sight. There is a lot of emotion in this thread. / 45.4288; 9.2545. No civilians were reported injured on the beach, officials added. Once, when flying with her sister, they looked out at the mountains, trees, and clouds, marveling at the beauty. "Santa Monica, California Airport Commissioner Doris Minter, is beginning her third year as member and chairwoman of the city's five member board. People have certain biases from who was flying in any accident that makes it easy to manipulate them. According to a witness, located about one quarter mile away, he first heard, then observed the airplane descend out of the clouds then immediately went into a steam cloud, which was produced from a set of six smokestacks located on the same roof. She sounds like a bright individual gone too soon. An Airmens Meteorological Information (AIRMET) advisory was active for icing and mountain obscurations for areas that included BYI.By the way, the automated weather facility at KBYI is an ASOS, not AWOS. The MDA & displaced threshold is for the obstacles near the approach. Four years ago, Burley airport lost their Federal Aviation Administration funding because it did not meet their safety standards due to short runways. The YouTube "Clown" commingled an half-assed apology with begging for $cash money$ be sent to him. Their bond was unbreakable, and their most fun times were spent together, especially when traveling the world. Harrowing video captured the moment a small plane crashed into a neighborhood near a California high school . I think you are attacking the wrong anonymous commenter. The left wing shows most of the damage where it connects to the fuselage. If she was trading altitude to maintain airspeed after a flameout, seems like it would be important to get an idea of what minimum airspeed should be maintained, knowing that the stacks were ahead.The TL:DR for the details shown below is that she was holding 89/88 knots airspeed in the 30 seconds or so before stack impact compared to 96 knots across the tater plant on 4 April's RW20 approach.If you were the C208 pilot and had adequate visual of the ground so near, would you have shallowed the altitude trade off and accepted a lower airspeed than 88 knots to squeak over the tater plant?------ Backup info ------To provide a reference on judging whether airspeed decayed in a manner different from what she would have flown normally (acknowledging the sink rates reported in the data), compare speeds by looking at the last two captured data points as she turned across the tater plant during the uneventful 4 April approach to RW20:Using track log data from:https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N928JP/history/20220404/1318Z/KSLC/KBYIMon 09:52:44 AM 42.5539 -113.7523 271 83 96 4,675 -385Map pinned location of that data point:http://maps.google.com/maps?t=k&q=loc:42.5539+-113.7523Mon 09:53:05 AM 42.5501 -113.7611 219 87 100 4,475 -571Map pinned location of that data point:http://maps.google.com/maps?t=k&q=loc:42.5501+-113.7611(The 42.5501+-113.7611 location is approx 670 feet closer to the airfield than the struck stack. During that last phase, the Caravan was in a nose-high descent. In lieu of flowers, the Infanger family is welcoming donations for a scholarship fund in Brittneys honor. KBYI has a 3.7 degree glidepath for obstacles, including the plant and the railroad brige, which would put her at 66.7 feet over the threshold and about 108 feet over the end of the displaced threshold. The airport cannot expand because it is landlocked between the Snake River and train tracks. in 'vans, always used about 95 Kts on short final, slowing to 80~85 just before touchdown (depending on load, winds, etc.). The FAA isn't in the habit of approving approaches that don't meet TERPS, so that is a given. She has participated in eight trans-continental air races, and together, they have flown to Alaska, Quebec, Belize, the Florida Keys and 2000 miles around Australia. Delete. Thirty feet is not a big change in your analysis, but after verifying the stack is #16-036731 in the obstruction database, true height of 100 feet is the verified data. I once nearly killed myself by misinterpreting what was before me driving my motorcycle at night through mist. I will give the details below for others to replicate, but here are my conclusions:(1) If you start at 4800ft at JAMID, and then descend with a 3.75 degree angle from horizontal as advised on the published approach plate, you would clear the top of a 100' AGL stack by only *63 feet. The aircraft departed the Houston . (ADS-B granularity in increments of 25 feet altitude, with rounding and accuracy limitations in FlightAware's processed data reduces precision, but attempting to compensate each point for local pressure variation from 29.92 is eliminated by this technique.