The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. Actually you describe yourself what the effect of better mobility is at the end of your post. #warthunder #warthundermemes #warthunderfunny #warthunderclipsTwitch: Twitch.t. Side turret is 150mm or higher so angling is really easy as well. 1. The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. Also since ground ai. Pretty unfair that almost all US tanks have those AA HMGs. do we not have a tank yet? The 5.7 Tiger need APCR for that, which the 5.3 Tiger doesnt have. The problem is that the faster tank has the advantage of initiative. As a mainly (90% of battles or more) German player I have to debunk one thing. This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. A Do335 can do a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47. If the team melts, the team melts. I'm a regular war thunder player if you want to contact me= discord= TelDu3998we also have our own discord server https://dis. This is something that only the brits can do reliably at this BR and you can't just discount it as an advantage. Nope but you will have your own luxuries instead, the fact that you knew what he was trying to pull off and decided toplan his demise in advanceand he won't have aclue until its too late. The m41 is a welcomed addition. (Oh how many times I have shot the IS6 turret from 400m and all I did was turn the gunner yellow) Plus they have things like T44 which are very bouncy to the 88. I've heard that damage output might be linked to vehicle tiers and the Puma is just rank 2. Also Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Pretty immune to 88's. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. Puma 50mm Panzergranate has pretty low post pen damage on higher tier tanks. On the other hand, allied planes get the bomb loads because their cannons/mgs are less effective against German meds and heavies. Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? Like this moments when the T95 suddenly reaches the cap point 10 seconds before the match ends. The F-4F Phantom II is a rank VII German jet fighter with a battle rating of 11.0 (AB/RB/SB). For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. In an uptier when being met by a T54. that's it. I'm talking about the teams steamsad question. Don't know maybe deserve a new play again. A COMMENTARY ON THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS - Bonar. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. Contrary to popular belief there is more then one way to exploit this knowledge. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. If we're going to go with just the general platitudes then it's kind of a boring discussion that you would clearly be winning if we don't take a deeper look at the issues with German mobility other than "keeping pace", whatever that means. The second was the Persian Gulf War era Challenger 1, which was the British army's main battle tank (MBT) from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s. Hell even the FV4202 has a strong enough turret to confidently bounce long 75s and russian guns. And here comes the issue with uptiers. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. Sometimes it works. Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield, One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? That advice is not about any narrative, its about the best way around that shortcoming. First of all the amount of smoke the projectile generates when it strikes a target is ridiculous. Ok, so you don't agree that it is easier to flank with small and fast vehicles? I myself often wonder why German players don't just take out their CAS when playing against 5.7-7.7 brits for example, since most of the brit tanks at that level can be easily penned even by .50 cal weapons from the air. Born Lucile Randon on 11 February 1904 in Ales, the world's oldest person. I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. Hardly an advantage. I agree though that the lines should be redone, but not only for Germany but for all the nations. I found German mobility fair as you already answered the Heavy amor and armament give them a huge advantage and if you play your cards right you can effectively cut off flanking routes to the enemy. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. I haven't had a single game with Germany either on the same or enemy team without there being a single puma. MBIZO CHIRASHA( International -Zimbabwean) is a Pan-Writivism Laureate Literary Arts Activism Diplomate/Influencer, Certified Projects Curator, African Writing Associate/Visiting Arts Programs, World Renowned Anthologist, Poet in-Residence Emeritus ,Festivals Convener/Speaker/ SpokenWordArtist. Second, almost every US tank has .50 cals for AA purposes. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. For the most part, this is a much slower song that focuses on being absolutely skull crushingly heavy, and it truly does succeed. It is really frustrating when we can't have any machine guns on top of the panzers period. - East Germany suffers! history projects. What is the Caernarvon? I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. It's best to make do with what you have at the moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles. The Me 410 B-6/R3 is considerably more competitive than people think. Both the american 76mm and the russian 85mm will penetrate that front plate if not correctly angled. And in realistic they are mainly on maps with japan fighting on one side. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. Think a bit ahead. Unfornatly the 105mm Tiger II was phased out. The Panthers' reverse situation is one that's not terribly extraordinary because poor reverse speed is a commonplace of many tanks--particularly those of the British. Hell no, you can still get kills if you have a decent team and play smart. I have said quite the opposite honestly. Germany suffers (and others too), balance, br, tanks, jets, etc. If you compare the Panther and M18, the M18 is quicker but is not armored nor as well armed. I can go grab the pictures if you'd like as proof. As the matter relates to teams' statuses and ticket bleed, the capture point's alignment once captured is ended from the moment it is captured until the moment that hold on it is broken or the game ends. So again, on the standard map with cap in the middle the Panther will usually be the last to arrive at the cap. Interesting, unless you are talking about the driving comfort of the crew I thought we had a couple of long discussions on here where you said main gun bounciness compared to stabilized tanks like the Sherman series are negligible. But there almost no such maps in the game. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. But the T34doesn't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 h 10.5 does. Or is it? The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. Besides, Panther II mounts the long 88 so T__ tanks still can and will bounce it with ease. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. The AR with no armor, lackluster speed, no guns, or perhaps the TA which can only do bomber hunting and perhaps a few light vehicles however with limited ammo and frail frame it will get eaten by .50 CAL You can check the loadout options, you either have to pick a fighter, bomber or an attacker, there are no multi task missile and bomb armed super props that can wreck havoc on the ground and then dominate the sky. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. Your best chance would be using Japan yourself, Ah I see. I haven't shared your issues i go through a T series and it dies normally and I'm more prone to freak out if a IS-6 rolls over a hill than a T series. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. And I've never had issues with the breach on a T series unless I've hit the outside of it or its well past 500 meters which is were the 88 will struggle you can still go through the hull of it but need to be more cautious as a whole. And the stock ammo of the german M48A2C is the same as the US/Chinese M48A1, but somehow the US/Chinese M48A1 is at a higher BR. You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. Least I've been setting off ammo in them basically everytime. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . That jump is massive and not only deprives the player of the relevant experience they'd get in that 2.3 BRs of progression but also of the lineup for support they'd have if they had the stuff from the BRs in between, As with other nations, one death leavers are a problem for Germany. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. I've had heat go through and kill the guy that fired the round but never not blocked the shot. panzer ii light tank military history. If you would have told me you hit the outsides of the turret face no real angling makes it any flatter than what it is. Top tier meta is good survivability, mobility, and gun handling, as armor doesn't matter with laser rangefinders and high velocity APFSDS along with lots of CQB maps making weakspots easily hit. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). It's not pleasant to head into an area that's being directly contested, but if you want to win that's how you do it. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. So saying it does bad thing in a downtier goes whichever way you draw it. Welcome to r/Warthunder. It works wonders unless you have to make a regressive retreat. Not being able to be constructive in any way seems key to yourself. According to the complaint, Germany suffers terribly under the weight of uptiers. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. June 1st, 2020 - panzer ii panzerkampfwagen ii pzkpfw ii sdkfz 121 was a light tank produced in germany in the 1930s until the outbreak of war between germany and the ussr tank . The reverse speeds of all of these tanks mean you must step forward progressively, rather than figuring on advancing and reversing on a whim with them as you would with others. What do you expect? When I review the player profiles of those in the matches I am in, I commonly find such single nation players are the ones who struggle the most. Internal mods of higher tier vehicles are more durable, sometimes not even the engine starts burning if you shot a shell into the back of an rank 4 enemy. - Only usableTiger I is the 5.3 Tiger I. Spitfires can see the issue. Relative merit is in play here. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming, Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? Most matches against germany is like this, constant spam of Me 262's, arados, Do 335's, He 219's. So many BS planes capable of taking out 5-10 tanks before running out of ammo (but you know, US CAS is soo OP) Worst thing about it, allies can't do shit back. And their armor won't save them. Panther 2s didnt disappear. MidCii; Jul . Alternatively they could bring in an ground attacker with a better CAS loadout, but in turn be utterly outmatched when it comes to fighting for control of the sky. thx to the map design, germany tigers same as soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all. Even I--a German player myself--am commonly hounded over this, despite presenting a great deal of strong testimony thats based on many years experienc. Last time I played my king tiger I shot the T34s barrel as that was the only spot I knew I could reliably disarm him, then he just took out my barrel with .50s and I got killed by one of his teammates. If you don't. Threads 63 Messages 220. . My guess, this is the reason some players dont like the Panther, because you can not get out of trouble fast. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. You can angle the T__ turret is what I was saying, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily. Turret armor>>>hull armor for a number of reasons. Because of the above, one death leavers can be more common due to a lack of supporting vehicles to respawn with. I would just shoot breech, then driver/engine, and then if whatever I was shooting was still alive I would just wittle down it's last crew with the excellent reload and lolpen APDS. Oh definitely trade-offs are to be expected. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X--almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X. I wouldn't say its off topic at all, map friendly brawling options fallsintocategory's the suffering community thinks Germany needs and in the upper low MBT department East Germany is suffering as the tanks are missingaltogetherlike some other nationsvehiclesand that right there is the very definition of "Suffering". But yes, if manage to get in a flanking spot undetected you can flank with it. FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. I wouldn't mind more open maps, though I must admit I still prefer hard cover to range. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? . Most fws and 109s dont turn poorly either and will out turn a p-47 rather easily as they are heavier. As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. Maus at 7.0? The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. Tell me what 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side of the T series. But only at long range. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. But that doesn't change the fact that the tank have bad reverse speeds,, fit in with all the other bad aspects of the Panther in this game, like bad low speed movement due to the missing regenerative steering. #15. If anything i insist you grind out to the T34 play about 100 games you'll tend to find that the two are rather close to compare. Only part of Germany that suffers is really top tier air. When I play american tanks I always use the .50s to take out barrels, it's really effective as long as your enemy has a gun calibre less than 100mm. If you liked it, feel free to sub. Example, an M18 is freaking fast compared to a Panther or any other German Tank of that tier. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. APDS is guaranteed damage, just aim for specific crew one at a time or shoot for modules. Sohow exactly do I do that? Nobody likes uptiers and Germans are no exception--but theyre not suffering any more than anyone else. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. Step forward progressively, oh how I haven't seen that argument before. Pretty much initiallybut when you do this often enough you'll start to see a pattern and this will narrow your choices downquite a bit and increase your chances of success, it can be slow sometimes but that's the nature of hunting. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? All of these things are important, with at least one being exceptional for a vehicle to be any good generally. He can get to cap first and setup an ambush. As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. And no I wasn't talking about the swingfire I mean the 7.7 german raketenjagdpanzer 2 literally fires the same missiles as the STRV.81 (which also has a gun) and yet sits a whole BR higher for some reason. Still a lot more intuitive. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. Well suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills. I tested you 50 cal theory and it can be done but it takes so many rounds and reloads its not an arguing point at all. India. Any player should understand that, especially new players! Your observations are not a statistical fact or some sort of general trend setting. Thats why the Germans tend to be passive. The only way the Germans can use their strengths to dominate such maps is with good teamplay. Penetration isn't everything and it's wrong to assume that a heavy tank should be mostly immune to everything they face of similiar or lower BR. Theres was no reason to add them for almost every US tanks in War Thunder. Are you serious? The merits of ground vehicles rely on the triad--armor, firepower and mobility. You have to constantly be aware of this. Meanwhile the M18 will be sitting in the ambush or going around the cap into your back because he know that you will not dare to cap. Those things can shrug off even the 10.5 in close combat. Just hide behind a hill or a tree and wait till the panther finally arrives, and then shoot that big juicy target in the side (i do that all the time, the best vehicle to kill king tigers is actually the M56 Scorpion). 1. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. Fires, backs up to cover from return fire etc, flanks if need be. For Centurion Mk.3 vs King Tiger H, The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. Powered by Invision Community. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. Really? And we can't skip over the SPAAs either when discussing counters against CAS. Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. On the contrary, Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. SIKE German mains am I right? T__ turret has double layered spots where it goes as high as 300mm, angled cheeks, and is straight up thicker even at it's weakest points. Ugh. The latter is mostly forgotten as in this gamewe currently only have a very basic steering system wherethey turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. I don't feel I need assume such things as this is already quite relevant to my interests. In Panther? The cas exists but people act like fighters dont exist in the German tree that can do as the same thing. What do you expect? As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. It is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of understanding that having a whole bunch of people brand new out of 3.0 in 5.X is a problem. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. They've been in the game for years so to state that they've dropped off the face of the earth is anything but true. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. If you shoot the side of the turret its about 175mm thick but if you shoot the hull its about 77mm thick. Which isn't as many as the P-47 you still get access to the same 1,000 pounder and 500 pounder it gets just not at once. And the overwhelming sense of hopelessness when the enemy team finds outhowithappened, that moment alone is to die for. Easier to spot in open terrain and gives you enough time for an aimed shot? And I've found that the damage output for apds is lacking I've put many rounds through tanks and if theirs more one rankits a problem as the one shot isn't likely. Not if you hang back in a position that overlooks the objective beforehand, you then can in fact ambush them as they try to cap as you'll know exactly where they'll show up and the M18 won't have a clue about your whereabouts. encyclopedia. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. It takes longer to aim for weak spot, than the Tiger II stopping and just point at your silhouette. And the T series has a thick turret but the tiger 2 has a better hull. And the Tiger 2s consistently bounce shells they are by no means slouches and have a thicker hull than the T series which will say no to most rounds that fly at it outside of apds which can be angled to avoid for the most part and or heat. How to use automatic gear optimal to get the Panther moving: If you move on flat or rising terrain, roads are an exception, use the 2nd auto gear. People wildly overstate the extent of this. Then yes, M18 would be toast. This pretty much says it all, and it describesa fundamental problem with ground RB: the fastesttanks with decent firepowerare the only vehicles in WT that can set up ambushes early game (which helps setting up ambushes mid and late game as well); slower TDs and tanks can't fulfill this role in WT even if they were designed specifically for this purpose and fulfilled it very successfully irl; the brawling maps which drastically cut down the range of engagementscombined with the "early game race" effectively prevents this. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. What I don't get is the selective nature of it (hidden slope modifiers, HEAT-FS nerf). Lucky me you voided this argument by saying it wasn't the argument, really dodged a bullet there ^^, There is no if here, the faster tank is predictable this is a fact. When you have 2 identical vehicles performing differently by a noticeable margin with the only variable being the people who play them, it really makes you wonder. And that is harder than the relatively obvious strategies for Soviet and American vehicles, especially when the allies can grab the objectives AND the flanks and wait until they win by ticket bleed. I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. What about T95? (Saint Nicholas Bible, CIVIC Worship The Good Book, & Queen Elizabeth II Bible are the same book with 3 different While I played my Germans at 5.7, uptiers beyond 6.0 were very rare. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. It's as hard to shoot a the turret of a tiger 2 as it is to shoot a T series turret. If we only knew the do black people have bigger penis rate at which the penis size men earth how to make your dick bigger review porn hentai penis growth is cooling we might calculate back to this time with some assurance of certainty, always, however, on the assumption average penis size when not erect that the earth is simply a hot body cooling like any other hot body such, say, as a red . If a person is to look at other trees and seek to understand the problems they face, far worse MM can be found. When I played my 6.0s, uptiers to 6.3 and 6.7 were common but things worked out well. Those things are a really easy kill as long as you see them first. And if you talking about the swingfire it's not a good vehicle. Also, you're making it sound like the T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely doesn't. Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . In that experience, I have found that. One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. Every time I play 5.7, I see a lot of Tiger I. In the early days I would have now I just think its better to grab a turtle and snipe, small and fast is for fun whenyou want to explore or get bored.
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